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 You Be The JuryFirst  1 2 3 4 >  Last
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SoonerFan
Hafa Adai



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2455 posts
Edmond Oklahoma

 You Be The Jury Reply  Edit


There is a trial coming up here in Oklahoma City that is causing quite a bit of controversy. I thought it might make an interesting topic of discussion here.

Here's what I know from watching/reading news coverage...
Two boys, one 14 and one 16 walk into a pharmacy in southwest OKC. The 14 year old brandishes a gun and threatens to "shoot your ass" . The 57 year old pharmacist, Jerome Ersland, pulls a pistol from behind the counter and shoots the 16 year old in the head. The 14 year old runs out the door and Ersland chases after him and empties his gun but does not hit him. Ersland returns to the store and walks by the 16 year old, who is unconscious and not moving in a pool of blood, and goes back behind the counter and get a second gun and then goes and fires five shots into the would be robbers chest and abdomen... killing him.

Medical examiner determined that the head shot was not fatal but the five shots to the torso were. The DA, David Prater, says that the first shot was clearly self defense and if Ersland had stopped there, there wouldn't be a problem. Prater is charging Ersland with 1st Degree Murder. The 14 year old is in prison along with two adults who somehow prompted the robbery.

Here is the complete store survailance video of the crime: http://feeds.newsok.tv/service...53001

Here is the latest news story from the local newspaper website: http://www.newsok.com/oklahoma...14745

Okay, you're the jury... remember you are bound by the law not your emotions or opinion. Is the pharmacist guilty or murder or not?




Online Poll » Results

Guilty (72%, 182 votes)
 
Not Guilty (27%, 68 votes)
 
(250 total votes)



BasserJim
Relish Boy



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9643 posts
Ahrensville PA

 Re: You Be The Jury (SoonerFan) » Reply  Edit


Guilty. You stop shooting when the threat subsides


hunt22-250
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5853 posts
CornField NE

 Re: You Be The Jury (BasserJim) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by BasserJim »
Guilty. You stop shooting when the threat subsides

He went from defending himself to a crazed killer.

ChiefManyRises
Fishin' Fool

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402 posts
Windsor CO

 Re: You Be The Jury (SoonerFan) » Reply  Edit


I think he should not have shot the "downed" threat anymore. He was no longer a threat as he was shot in the head and unconscious. He made the decision to reload and then shoot him additional times. Bad decision on his part.

It would be hard not to be pissed at these guys that just threatened your life and not go into survival mode but during the time of reloading and still seeing the guy laying there in a pool of blood and not moving is when he should have been calling 911. He could have just reloaded and been ready if need be.

I suspect his defense will be he still felt a threat and maybe he was in the heat of the moment.

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shawnrd81
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1633 posts
fort knox ky

 Re: You Be The Jury (SoonerFan) » Reply  Edit


He should have stopped after the threat is gone. There was no reason to go chase someone and empty a pistol at him. He put the public in danger. Then he continues to go back inside and get another weapon and shoot the robber five more times in the chest after he shot him in the head was uncalled for. He will have a one way ticket to jail. I know the defense is going to bring up the ages of the robbers but that is not the case at all here. He defended himself at first which was the right thing to do but then he continued to be a vigilante which is wrong and could have injured someone innocent. Then he shot the robber five more times we can not even do that in Iraq or Afghan it is against the Geneva conventions.


bigtexnick
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FW Texas

 Re: You Be The Jury (BasserJim) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by BasserJim »
Guilty. You stop shooting when the threat subsides

that's a good way to put it. i agree.

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Lassiter
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Guy AR

 Re: You Be The Jury (BasserJim) » Reply  Edit


He left himself open to prosecution when he chased the other boy outside firing at him. Where did the other rounds hit?? He endangered innocent bystanders with his reckless actions. When the second suspect ran the threat and the justification for deadly force was over.

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buzzking
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Lexington ky

 Re: You Be The Jury (hunt22-250) » Reply  Edit


I'd probably lean towards reckless manslaughter prompted by temporary insanity. The video shows the threat was neutralized. Going for the other gun made this dude a criminal no matter how big of a piece of scum the deceased was.


pbmang
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Acworth GA

 Re: You Be The Jury (hunt22-250) » Reply  Edit


I say not guilty and here is why. In this particular situation there is no video showing the downed criminal. If I was in the pharmisist place and was just held up a gun point, I would be VERY defensive. If the criminal who he shot was still moving, I would consider him a threat because I don't know if he is also carrying a gun or not. Even if he was dying, I have no way of knowing if he is still going to try and pull the gun and shoot me. So, if the criminal on the ground was still moving, I could see how he would be considered a threat and he was dealt with.

Now, if there was no movement at all, that would be a different story. I still don't think 1st Degree Murder is appropriate though.

stakultexsun
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Plano Tx

 Re: You Be The Jury (buzzking) » Reply  Edit


If it were my home, I'd done the same thing.

But being in the store, or "my store", knowing I was on camera...no.

Honestly though, I'm glad the 16 yr old is dead. I wish the 1st shot would have killed him.

Don't you agree? Don't you wish the 1st shot would have killed him? The end result would be the same, but the means would be different.

NASCAR
Ohio Mudpuddle Mafia



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4965 posts
dayton ohio

 Re: You Be The Jury (buzzking) » Reply  Edit


If I have to uphoild the law he is guilty because he shot a person who was no longer a threat.

If It was my opinion, at least one scumbag is off the street. And I don't care who you are you probably would have done the same thing. dead men tell no tales, but the camera tells all.

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Mark from NY


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Canajoharie NY

 Re: You Be The Jury (BasserJim) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by BasserJim »
Guilty. You stop shooting when the threat subsides

Agree


Ronk
Ronk



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1013 posts
Millbury MA

 Re: You Be The Jury (Mark from NY) » Reply  Edit


Good shot #1 , but no reason to unload a gun after that Now it's premeditated murder I would suspect. Bummer for the guy behins the shooting, and stupity of not dumping the survailance tapes. ,
CWCW
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Joshua TX

 Re: You Be The Jury (Mark from NY) » Reply  Edit


Yep, guilty. Shoot back to defend yourself, but when the person shot becomes no more of a threat, you stay back hold the gun on him and protect yourself until help arrives.
Slopfishin
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Hopkinsville Ky

 Re: You Be The Jury (SoonerFan) » Reply  Edit


IMO, that kid forfeited his rights when he pulled a gun on the folks in the shop. Good riddence to bad rubish. Granted, I'm letting my emotions guide my decision, but I just can't help it. Sorry.
bassketcase05
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Ft. Wayne IN

 Re: You Be The Jury (CWCW) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by CWCW »
Yep, guilty. Shoot back to defend yourself, but when the person shot becomes no more of a threat, you stay back hold the gun on him and protect yourself until help arrives.
Agreed, the pharmacist went too far IMO. Maybe not murder, but manslaughter???



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AJH
AJH

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Selbyville DE

 Re: You Be The Jury (stakultexsun) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by stakultexsun »
If it were my home, I'd done the same thing.

But being in the store, or "my store", knowing I was on camera...no.

Honestly though, I'm glad the 16 yr old is dead. I wish the 1st shot would have killed him.

Don't you agree? Don't you wish the 1st shot would have killed him? The end result would be the same, but the means would be different.


dam, that's harsh, i don't want to see anyone killed,
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East TN

 Re: You Be The Jury (AJH) » Reply  Edit


It's a terrible situation all the way around. The propreitor definitely went too far and will pay for his mistake. I would hope he gets a lesser included charge - something along the lines of manslaughter would seem fitting considering the circumstaces. A competent attorney would likely use the "heat of the moment" argument.


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BasserJim
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Ahrensville PA

 Re: You Be The Jury (bassketcase05) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by bassketcase05 »
Agreed, the pharmacist went too far IMO. Maybe not murder, but manslaughter???

He went and reloaded that gun with the intention of shooting that kid dead. That's pre-meditation, and thats first degree murder. On top of that, they should tack on an attempted murder charge for going after the other kid. IMHO. After that first shot was fired, the one kid ran out, and the other went down and was unconscious. There was no longer a threat to his life. He should have stopped, and called 911. Anything beyond that was in cold blood.

I am very much a proponent of defending yourself. I do carry a weapon regularly, and will not hesitate to shoot someone I feel is an unavoidable threat to my life. This guy, however, took it way too far


GaryL
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Kennebunkport Maine

 Re: You Be The Jury (SoonerFan) » Reply  Edit


It is hard to say, IMO. You can not see the downed suspect in the video. I am sure a good defence attorney will use that there is also no audio. He could very easly say the guy was still moving and posing a threat.

Does he deserve to go to jail for doing a public service? If he does go to jail it should only be for reckless conduct with a fire arm. For shooting up the hood he is lucky no one else was hurt. I say to bad he didn't get them both. I have no compation for armed robbers or thieves of anykind. No matter their age.

I really feel if there were more folks willing to defend themselves as he did crime would really go down.

I wish him well in his fight to stay free.


273 DC
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Tarheel NC

 Re: You Be The Jury (BasserJim) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by BasserJim »

He went and reloaded that gun with the intention of shooting that kid dead. That's pre-meditation, and thats first degree murder. On top of that, they should tack on an attempted murder charge for going after the other kid. IMHO. After that first shot was fired, the one kid ran out, and the other went down and was unconscious. There was no longer a threat to his life. He should have stopped, and called 911. Anything beyond that was in cold blood.

I am very much a proponent of defending yourself. I do carry a weapon regularly, and will not hesitate to shoot someone I feel is an unavoidable threat to my life. This guy, however, took it way too far

Very well said, JIM, I agree 100% . At first just reading the post I was in the 2nd murder stage for sure. But after watching the video he went back and reloaded the gun, for the second shooting spree, That is pre meditation , 1st deg murder would be the charge he should be charged with. People like this is who gives CCW licenses holders a bad name.

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Mark from NY


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Canajoharie NY

 Re: You Be The Jury (1993stratos274) » Reply  Edit


16 people so far voted not guilty in the poll but do not submit an explanation why they feel that way. Not saying you have to but it does seem strange.


273 DC
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Tarheel NC

 Re: You Be The Jury (GaryL) » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by GaryL »
Does he deserve to go to jail for doing a public service? If he does go to jail it should only be for reckless conduct with a fire arm. For shooting up the hood he is lucky no one else was hurt. I say to bad he didn't get them both. I have no compation for armed robbers or thieves of anykind. No matter their age.

I really feel if there were more folks willing to defend themselves as he did crime would really go down.

I wish him well in his fight to stay free.

\

Your comment is true, no one knows what they would do in that sit. until it happens to them first hand. Maybe he got tunnel vision and his anger got the best of him. I also HATE the scum who do these crimes and yes maybe they deserved this but if this was legal actions, this world would be a Crazy as hell place to live. It is already bad enough, BUT he just went to far on this one. And YES you are right it is a Damn shame he did not get both of them, but once the threat is gone there is no more self defense issues there.

Also sounds like he needs to practice with that thing a little. The one that flashes the gun is the #1 threat, But he shot the other one. Both may need it but I think I would consentrate on the one with the gun first. JMO

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196 Bobby
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TN

 Re: You Be The Jury (1993stratos274) » Reply  Edit


If he tries to rob me, I cut him into pieces with every round I have, then I go after number 2. Do you think rationally when faced with a situation like this. I don't. The threat may have been neutralized, but it's not always so simple to "turn it off" after faced with a potential life or death situation.
273 DC
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Tarheel NC

 Re: You Be The Jury (196 Bobby) » Reply  Edit


That is true, know one can really say what they would do for sure. If the subject can prove what he did was called for, then so be it I hope him the best. Me I might have done the same thing in his situtation. There are many factors to take in to fact. I am just going on what I seen and was told on this post. I still feel he lost it, hope everything works out for him.

1999 Stratos 273 / Johnson 150hp (Stratos's little HOT ROD!)

"FLIPPING KING"

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